[2][3] They are sometimes used as the type of plot device known as a Big Dumb Object. The estimated cost for a new MT 5500AC is around $5 million. The idea comes from the concept of the Develop technology capable of producing and manipulating matter at an incredibly large scale, allowing for the construction of a structure large enough to enclose the entire solar system. Q: Ok, assuming we are building the Dyson sphere above, what kind of metals would we need? Can't better your answer.The best part of giving a wrong answer is it spurs other people to give one you can learn from, both yours and John on this page. Additionally, the cost would depend on the specific design and capabilities of the storage and transportation equipment required for the mission. I'd suggest that "minimum" distance depends more upon the technology available to the builders than anything else. The estimated cost for a new HIGmill ranges from $500,000 to $5 million, depending on the size and configuration. Possible wavelengths for a hot Dyson Sphere to be detected in different black hole mass. The Dyson sphere is the ultimate end goal of the Dyson Sphere Program. You can, of course, decrease the difference by making the DS larger. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America). When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. What would it take to mine asteroids for procuring this material? Some scientists believed that the star, officially known as KIC 8462852 but later dubbed Boyajians Star, had a Dyson sphere built around it, which resulted in its strange dimming. Q: At current world GDP growth rates, how long would it take for world GDP to reach $6.117 x 10^33? If the percentage of such atypical wavelengths were to be significant, an alien megastructure could be detected at interstellar distances. Copper Copper is relatively rare in the solar system and is mainly found in the crusts of the rocky planets. In a new study published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society (opens in new tab), researchers from Taiwan's National Tsing Hua University (NTHU) dig into the energy output from a stellar mass black hole and found that the energy captured would be immense and would dwarf the amount of energy captured by their own sun. However, there are some existing mining robots that could potentially be adapted for use on Psyche. Knock yourself out. The original site was designed by S. Abbas Raza in 2004 but soon completely redesigned by Mikko Hyppnen and deployed by Henrik Rydberg. Hertzsprung-Russell diagram: the most important graph in astrophysics, Exoplanets with moons may be likelier to host life, A fable of ancient Greece: when the mythic universe became a rational machine, Tolkien on the importance of fantasy and science fiction, Longer naps in the day may be an early sign of dementia in olderadults. By creating a space-based structure, an alien civilization could meet the energy needs to push its civilization to the next level. The estimated cost for a new which is a just about $10^7$light-seconds, or 0.3 light-years. Black Hole 0.185 22900 1240 22 0.09590235397 O-type 2.165 22900 1240 257 Waves break. Here are some estimates: Based on these estimates, its possible that mining all of the asteroids in the solar system, as well as Io, Callisto, Ganymede, Europa, and Mercury, could yield a total of around 4 x 10^20 kilograms of metal, as well as significant amounts of water ice, sulfur, and other volatiles. Here is a list of some of the equipment that would likely be needed for such a project: Overall, mining all the metal on Psyche would require a significant investment of resources and technology, and it would likely be a long-term project that would require ongoing research and development. 3 Quarks Daily started in 2004 with the idea of creating a curated retreat for everything intellectual on the web. A recent paper published in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society suggests that scientists should start to look for Dyson spheres around black holes as an indication of an alien civilization. The form of 'biosphere' which I envisaged con Some of the questions I asked chatGPT included: I verified at least some (but not all) of the numbers it gave me from other sources and was finally able to arrive at the following conclusion: Building a 1 meter thick Dyson sphere at 1 AU from the sun would take approximately 10^25 kilograms of material. In this way, a single black hole Dyson Sphere could put the beings that built it on a path to becoming a Type III civilization one with the capacity to collect the energy equivalent of an entire galaxy. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Dyson spheres have not been detected yet, but an advanced alien civilization would surely need them. Therefore, its unlikely that we would have enough material to construct a Dyson sphere of the size and composition you specified using only the asteroids and selected moons mentioned earlier. Alternately, you can think about an entire world powered by electric batteries instead of fossil fuels. This would require specialized refining equipment, such as smelters and chemical processing equipment. Based on the calculations I provided earlier, constructing a Dyson sphere with a radius of 1 AU and a thickness of 1 meter would require approximately 9.1 x 10^25 kilograms of material, assuming the material is evenly distributed across the sphere and has a density of 2 grams per cubic centimeter. How much material would I need to build this Dyson sphere? If you like what we do, please consider making a donation. The major sources of each of these metals in the solar system vary depending on the specific metal. We've got a long way to go before declaring anything we can't comprehend as impossible. Based on estimates from the Galileo mission, its been suggested that Ios surface may contain around 10^18 kilograms of sulfur. can one turn left and right at a red light with dual lane turns? [21][22], A precursor to the concept of Dyson spheres was featured in the 1937 novel Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon,[1] in which he described "every solar system surrounded by a gauze of light-traps, which focused the escaping solar energy for intelligent use". For a Dyson sphere thats at 2 AU and 2 meters thick, how many asteroids would we need to completely mine? The power density emitted by the surface of the sphere will be twice that of the CBE, which will produce an apparent temperature of 3.27 K, or about 0.5 K above CBE. In the longer term, consider the concept of uploading people's consciousnesses to some kind of data storage center, as proposed in an episode of the dystopian anthology series Black Mirror. Dyson speculated that such structures would be the logical consequence of the escalating energy needs of a technological civilization and would be a necessity for its long-term survival. We would need to consider other sources of material, such as mining other planets or moons in the solar system, or developing new methods for obtaining and processing materials. This makes me wonder: If the black holes in other galaxies were covered in dyson spheres Could we detect that currently? Spheres detected in astronomical searches could be an indicator of extraterrestrial life. If you truly want to understand modern astrophysics, knowing how to read this graph is essential. I wanted to see how efficiently chatGPT harnesses information from the internet to give me specifics and how well its large language model (LLM) of computation understood what I was saying. A Dyson sphere is a theoretical megastructure that surrounds a star to collect its energy output. Aliens Might Be Using Dyson Spheres to Harvest Energy From Black Holes, Scientists Say, A Dyson Sphere May Bring Humans Back From the Dead. Would it be possible to have a small black hole dissipate as it 'sinks' into the earth? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. This means that a Penrose sphere is far smaller than a Dyson sphere encasing a star of equivalent mass. It would be tricky to insulate against that. The estimated cost for a new 797F is around $5 million. Is a copyright claim diminished by an owner's refusal to publish? Take a look at Einstein saying light curves because the speed of light is spatially variable. Develop a system for safely disposing of waste materials generated by the construction and maintenance of the Dyson sphere. A: Asteroid mining is a potential source of various metals that could be used for building a Dyson sphere around the solar system. I can think of another reason: use it as a. Nassim Nicholas Taleb, author of Fooled by Randomness and The Black Swan. When the pencil hits the floor this kinetic energy is dissipated, and you're left with a mass deficit. Solar panels: Solar panels are a common source of power for remote operations. anyway the smallest stellar black hole would be at least above 3 solar masses so either depends on your mass a stable orbit without artificial acceleration is given by Force(net) equal to (Mass(1 swarm) multiply by velocity square) divided by distance. On the other hand, pairs of particles, one particle and one antiparticle, separate due to the strong gravitational field whereby one gets inside the event horizon, and the other is emitted as radiation. Cimarrons Transloaders are mobile conveyor systems used for loading and unloading bulk materials. Electrons etc cannot maintain their identity. However, here are some very rough estimates based on current average prices: Using these rough estimates, the cost of 1.901 x 10^27 kilograms of material for the Dyson sphere would be approximately: (0.5 x 1.901 x 10^27 x 0.8) + (0.3 x 1.901 x 10^27 x 1.5) + (0.2 x 1.901 x 10^27 x 1) = $6.117 x 10^33. Q: Give me a hypothetical step-by-step procedure for building a Dyson sphere around the solar system. However, we've yet to even find traces of bacteria on another world, much less something this, well, epic in scale. Copper Copper is a good conductor of electricity and could be used for wiring and electrical components of the Dyson sphere. Its goal is to help power a civilization whose energy demands have simply eclipsed their planet's natural potential. But Wright suggests it might be exceedingly difficult. Also see Shapiro, and this Baez article: Einstein talked about the speed of light changing in his new theory. I was aiming at a ball park estimate instead of an exact figure. Does Chain Lightning deal damage to its original target first? Q: Ok, now lets see a few examples of relevant storage and transportation equipment and their approximate costs. Because its smaller, the Penrose sphere will require far less material. Can I ask for a refund or credit next year? We Know How Fast Earth Spins Dont We? These robots would need to be able to operate in the low-gravity environment of the asteroid and withstand the extreme temperatures and radiation levels. SteelFabs Metal Bins are storage containers used for storing and transporting bulk materials. Assuming an average metal content of 10% by mass, this would give us around 2.8 x 10^20 kilograms of metal available from the asteroid belt. Assuming a Dyson sphere with a radius of 2 AU, the total mass of the Dyson sphere would be much greater, and the amount of materials required would also be larger. This, they say, will likely be in the form of waste heat that we can observe with infrared spectrum technology. The estimated cost of the RESOLVE drill is $10 million. A: I apologize for the error in my previous response. Q: I think you have made a mistake. This could be done using spacecraft or by launching the metals from the asteroids surface using a catapult-like device. New York, That's not how black holes work, and probably shouldn't work that way in the game. I flew into one, well as best as I could, it didn't do anything. That we do not see them because managed BHs are the optimum places for high computation civilizations. Q: What would be a good way to send all this equipment to Psyche? We may earn commission if you buy from a link. It only takes a minute to sign up. [2][3] Variations on the concept include a single circular band in Larry Niven's 1970 novel Ringworld,[3][26][27] a half sphere in the 2012 novel Bowl of Heaven by Gregory Benford and Niven,[2][3] and nested spheresalso known as a Matrioshka brain in Colin Kapp's 1980s Cageworld series and Brian Stableford's 19791990 Asgard trilogy.[1][3]. Nickel Nickel is a durable and heat-resistant metal that could be used for constructing parts of the Dyson sphere that will be exposed to high temperatures, such as the inner layers of the sphere. Gear-obsessed editors choose every product we review. You might need an entire planets worth of material, Wright says. A: Here are a few examples of metal refining equipment that could potentially be used for refining metals on Psyche, along with their estimated costs: Its worth noting that the cost of metal refining equipment for use on Psyche would likely be much higher than the above estimates, as the equipment would need to be specially designed and built to operate in the unique environment of an asteroid. This calculation suggests that we would need an enormous number of asteroids to mine to obtain enough materials for a Dyson sphere at 2 AU and 2 meters thick. Extracting heat energy without a heat engine. I must say I am enormously impressed. So really, the considerations are the size of the hole, being able to safely capture and distribute the power output, dealing with gravitational extremes, etc. Honestly. What is amazing about this back and forth is that if I had to assemble the same set of answers together by doing a regular Google search or by constructing written sources, it would have taken me days, if not weeks, to do it. What could be better than a super freaky idea from the edges of astrophysics? Building a Dyson Sphere around any star requires very advanced capacities. He speculated that this could be done via a system of structures orbiting the star, designed to intercept and collect its energy. The estimated cost of a fuel cell system ranges from $500 to $1,000 per kilowatt, depending on the size and configuration. John (He/Him) is the Components Editor here at TechRadar and he is also a programmer, gamer, activist, and Brooklyn College alum currently living in Brooklyn, NY. Black holes feed on surrounding material from stars or other objects in its vicinity, and some of that material then shoots out in the form of two powerful jets. The researchers behind the new study suggest that building a Dyson sphere around a black hole would allow an alien civilization to garner energy from six sources: By not only relying on radiation as the main source of energy but a Dyson sphere around a black hole would also collect five times as much energy as one around a star, according to the study. However, its important to note that this is a very rough estimate and should not be taken as an accurate cost calculation. The estimated cost for a new DM30 II is around $1.5 million. Q: Ok, now lets see a few examples of human support equipment equipment and their approximate costs. And what Winterberg is saying is that something's got to give, like the wave nature of matter. ", "Alien Supercivilizations Absent from 100,000 Nearby Galaxies", "Infra digging: Looking for aliens: The search for extraterrestrials goes intergalactic", "Astronomers may have found giant alien 'megastructures' orbiting star near the Milky Way", "Mystery of 'Alien Megastructure' Star Has Been Cracked", "How to build a Dyson sphere in five (relatively) easy steps", "Space travel with solar power and a dyson sphere", "Dyson Spheres: How Advanced Alien Civilizations Would Conquer the Galaxy", FermiLab: IRAS-based whole sky upper limit on Dyson spheres, Orbital Technologies Commercial Space Station, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dyson_sphere&oldid=1150370353, Short description is different from Wikidata, All Wikipedia articles written in American English, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 17 April 2023, at 19:51. I overpaid the IRS. We can start with the Dyson Sphere. Try two super freaky ideas from the edges of astrophysics. What are major sources of these materials in the solar system? The dyson sphere would have to be constructed in such a way that its mass was uniform in all directions done the planck length. The Environmental Control and Life Support System (ECLSS) used on the International Space Station costs around $250 million. This is actually a rather efficient way of producing energy, since it can turn up to 40% of the rest mass of matter in the disk into radiation, much better than nuclear fission or fusion. While the hot material stays beyond the singularitys event horizon, it can emit energy that radiates away into space. Thermodynamically possible to hide a Dyson sphere? Building a dyson shell around a black hole comes with a plethora of additional and probably intractable problems which need to be solved before even beginning to consider what constitutes a minimum safe distance. A black hole is a region of space with a gravitational pull so strong that nothing can escape its influence, not even light itself. Orbits are not required for keeping rings or spheres in place. I don't think so Dirk. Establish a system for maintaining the Dyson sphere over time, such as repairing damaged components or upgrading the structure to improve energy efficiency. But by analyzing what such an object would look like and leave behind as excess heat, scientists are better able to search the cosmos for that signatureand find any new neighbors who are running Dyson spheres on their nearest black hole. When NikolaiKardashev later devised a scale for classifying advanced aliens based on their capacities to harvest energy, he used the Dyson Sphere as a signature of a Type II civilization. Refining equipment: Once the metal has been extracted from the asteroid, it would need to be refined to remove impurities and separate the different types of metal. Theres also a possibility that a meteor or asteroid could nudge one of the pieces out of place. ($10,00 quadrillion for Psyche sounded attractive, so I focused on Psyche). Visit our corporate site (opens in new tab). If nothing else, it would be able to provide excellent starting points. Some way of starting a new system with your upgrades. Advanced civilizations would likely try to capture all the energy of their star to grow. Callisto: Callisto is another moon of Jupiter and is thought to have a rocky, icy surface. We're talking about a civilization that would be able to harness the power of earthquakes, volcanos, hurricanes, and even the energy output of the Earth's core all at once. That's because the potential energy is mass-energy, in the pencil. If we want to find extraterrestrials, we should follow their energy trail. One example of a thin-film solar cell that could be used for this application is the First Solar Series 6. Building a Dyson Shell around a black hole? However, these estimates should be taken with caution as they are based on current material prices and may not accurately reflect the cost of materials in the future, especially if they are required on a massive scale for such a large-scale project. However, here is a rough estimate of the costs of some of the equipment we have discussed: Overall, its possible that the total cost of the equipment required for a mining mission to Psyche could be in the range of several billion dollars. This can be done through remote sensing techniques, such as spectroscopy, which can provide information on the asteroids mineral composition. Medical equipment: Medical equipment for space missions needs to be lightweight, compact, and able to operate in microgravity. So if you think about (Boyajians) Star, and the way that it got dimmer and all of its weirdness [] That's the sort of thing they're looking for, more of those.. Click to load last save.". Could you build a stable structure just short of the Schwarzschild radius or would you need to move farther back to be safe? Then when you drop it into a black hole, all this is taken to extremis. Wow this is really cool! Icarus must be a God. In principle, no, you cannot make a Dyson sphere which is indistinguishable from the CMB. Since this is about 400,000 times the radius of the solar system (using the aphelion of Pluto as the marker - forget the Oort cloud for now), this suggests a pretty heroic structure, even by Dyson Sphere standards, and causes one to wonder exactly where the materials will come from. Lets unpack things a bit. All that said, even though we imagine black holes as energy sinks rather than generators, that is not entirely the case. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Iron Iron is a common construction material due to its strength, durability, and abundance. Poof, gone. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCdoCfw-bY, https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.103.023014. In general, that'd be harder to detect, he says. Something's wrong. Black holes make better engines for Dyson Spheres than stars. Since Dyson's paper, many variant designs involving building an artificial structure or series of structures to encompass a star have been proposed in exploratory engineering or described in science fiction, often under the name "Dyson sphere". What they find could help us reveal what a next-generation galactic civilization might look like, and even help us locate those extraterrestrials in the process. Specifically, a sphere with the diame Continue Reading Kilograms of sulfur: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ulCdoCfw-bY, https: //journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.103.023014 GDP growth rates, how long would it for! 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